The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Thats the same. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). Sigs are crap! When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Anyway around here they do. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. My gun just went off! You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). Theyre the only product that is not. Liberal, Conservative. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. three changes to the original design. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. And thats just my opinion. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Canadian soldier. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. Was it his fault? But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! in Capitalvania. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. It has nothing to do with Glock. Look a fanboy. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. 1:07. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. That focus drifts. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Zero in the affirmative. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. brakes, remember? Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. . The new Kirk does suck. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Trust a P365 with your life. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. And have the dropping 320 go off? A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. LOL! Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. Fair enough. Fine. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. You couldnt ask questions. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. (It wasnt my gun). Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. The Hide Armory. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. Because its flat out bull**it. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan That could happen easily. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. It was expensive. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. The Glock fails on both counts. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. It did not originally have this. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. . Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment.