Your email address will not be published. is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Given the pandemic's direct and indirect effects on the aviation industry, is that even going to a concern going forward. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. However, increasing the service obligation of new pilots is the wrong course of action. And finally, the Army will likely find that it should increase flight pay beyond what has already been offered. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots' retention in the future. Yes, , and its important to get there as quickly as you can because, . I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. Although 10 years of Active Duty feels like a long time, its not that much longer than the alternatives. and our New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? The Army has more career Enlisted willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer and increasein pay for the family, with or without a degree. Serving on Active Duty is also the only way to get an overseas flying assignment. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the. You don't have to have a college degree to apply or be accepted into it, he said. They run concurrently, butthe latter takes precedence, so your 6 (or 10) year ADSO begins the date you graduate Flight School. Back in the 1950s, the Army ask for a waiver in not paying flight pay for its pilots. 10 U.S. Code 2114: Graduates of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences incur an ADSO of at least 7 years. Privacy Policy. I spend almost 20 years missing opportunities due to family, deployments, school, and fear to change. I want to do it for as long as I can. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. COVID has taken care of the airline hiring problem for the next three to five years, making the issueance of an increased ADSO redundant. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another, First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. Holla at yo boy and lemme know what y'all are thinking. An ADSO twice as long as other branches (for academy grads) or 6+ years longer than ROTC counterparts is only going to deter quality officers that view an additional obligation as a loss of opportunity for careers beyond the service. The Army lowered the max TIS to 8 years for WOFT applicants a few years ago without a waiver. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. Do that and fix quality of life issues. The U.S. Army Aviation Center Survival Escape Resistance and Evasion (SERE-C) course. While its not impossible, and BogiDope can absolutely help you get there, this is far from guaranteed. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. Expect bonuses to disappear as well. Aircraft like the E-3 dont have many bases. There's a regulation whose number I can't recall at the moment that specifies when it starts. Cookie Notice At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. I will still try to join but maybe that's because I'm retarded, Guess my packet will go back on the share drive. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. His deployment vulnerability continues for even a couple of years after his seasoning orders are over. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. If anything it hurts recruiting new pilots. Next, hed go to his first assignment. Ultimately, the Army needs to focus on the retention of quality talent; not on retaining mediocre talent for a longer period of time "because they can mandate longer ADSOs.". However, if you missed that boat youre far better off taking an Active Duty UPT slot than trying Stans way and doing 5 years as in a non-flying job. | Army Organic Industrial Base Modernization Implementation Plan, Army Civil Works announces publication of a formal review for Nationwide Permit 12, Army Extends Timeline for Postpartum Soldiers to Meet Body Fat Standards, U.S. Army updates promotion and retention policies in response to COVID-19. Note: The waiver authority for this requirement is the Commanding General, U.S. Army Aviation Center, Fort Rucker, AL 36362-5000. . That 10 year obligation doesn't start until you finish flight school. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? I know this is an old article but as a graduating senior this policy is stupid. Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. Thoughts anyone? No products in the cart. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. He is the author of thejumo brief, a free weekly newsletter for Army leaders. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. Well, the short answer is, we dont know. If he didnt go to AFIT, hed have to move for a second assignment anyway. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. All branches in the military are facing a pilot shortage. I just signed my WOFT contract at MEPS on Thursday with the idea of a 6 year ADSO. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. More than likely the Lts selected will be lower on the Order of Merit List. I'm good at doing Army things and I enjoy them too, but I don't know if I can commit so much of my life before I've even had my first real taste of being an officer. One problem with pilots is that we don't age well (I'm not a military aviator, just a private pilot) so there would be an issue of reaching a physical condition expiration date at some point. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a, When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and, For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about, For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can . I agreed and accepted my appointment based on certain terms and the terms are getting altered without my consideration. What are the chances of getting picked up. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! Therefore, this option is virtually free for Aviation officers. I transitioned from infantry to aviation and have had off-and-on heartache with it ever since. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. This 10 year commitment will definitely dissuade him from the Army. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. Army rescinds COVID-19 vaccination requirements, $84 million contract awarded for Excalibur replenishment, Army officer part of newly resumed cooperation for International Space Station, Chief Warrant Officer 3 Sarah Stone is just one of four, Army CIO speaks at Army Europe and Africa 2022 Cybersecurity Summit, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Mr. Douglas Bush, ASA for AL&T, July 27, 2022, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Dr. Raj Iyer, Army Chief Information Officer, and LTG John B. Morrison, Jr., Army Deputy Chief of Staff G-6 June 09, 2022, Vietnamese-American service members parallel paths to the American dream, Bengali chief warrant officer finds the American dream through serving, Soldiers inspire new Army directive on parenthood, pregnancy and postpartum policies, U.S. Army STAND-TO! The report focused on the unmet demand for pilots in the commercial aviation sector that has attracted military pilots. The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. The views expressed are those of the authors, and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. I assume if you're not in flight school by that date, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. Not difficult for the Army in finding 300 additional NCOs for the WOFT program if need be. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. 2-4 more moves for assignments during his Active Duty career. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. So got word that it only affects WOs that complete WOCS after 1 Oct 2020. Im would bank on that being the flight school start date officially. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. Final thoughts the social aspect of the Army has never been worse. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. The rest are grandfathered in. This doesnt exactly seem legally right. There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. Back To Top I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I know some people haze junior warrant officers. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. The Army should be able to meet their quota through CAREER Enlisted personnel ONLY if they must. While I really want to be an aviator, the thought of being TOTALLY LOCKED IN until I'm 34 is terrifying. If hed gone to UPT right after college, its more likely that hed get a lot of his deploying done before his kids were that old, or even before they were all born. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the USAF Academy, ROTC, or OTS, I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. That's not what I am talking about. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization. United States, and the U.S. Army Re-serve, unless otherwise stated. We dont have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force. Without useful data, the Army cannot implement targeted retention solutions. Then 10 year service obligation put me right at 20 so Im not too worried about that. Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many side-hustles is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. The Army has had pilot shortages off and on ever since I can remember. Lets compare these options to see why. This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. If you graduate after 1 Oct 2020 expect a 10 year service obligation. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. Not saying I would want the out but, contractually wouldnt there be something to be said for Breach of contract here? Very true. My formation barely ever conducts social events. Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. As a good mentor, I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . How do Warrant Officers get promoted? I retired in 1998. The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. However, many of my buddies werent sure yet if they were willing to commit to a decade of service in exchange for a pilot slot. Signal: The IT department of the Army. 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. Stan figured that even spending 5 years in a non-flying job, this track would make him a military pilot well below the USAFs current age limit (33 years old), and would actually get him to the airlines sooner than his Active Duty pilot peers. It will harm recruiting and we will continue to bleed talent into the civilian aviation market. The upper age limit to enter flight training is established in law and requires Congressional action. Flying helicopters looks pretty dope though. I'm roaring and ready to go. Their workload is increased several fold versus the units that they are supporting. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. The big gotcha of the Active Duty pilot career path is that on the day you earn your wings, you also get hit with a 10-year Active Duty Service Commitment (ADSC). When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and Start With Why. These cadets may not be willing to forgo an extra four years of civilian work experience to serve as aviation officers. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) I think that mindser still exists. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. I still don't understand how this ADSO extension is going to fix any of those issues, though it may act as a "gotcha" to get people "over the hill" in their Army career where they wouldn't feel like a transition at 10-12 years of service would be a good decision. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. That evens the odds even more. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. Although I like to poke my Active Duty friends in the chest by asking, What do you love about military aviation that you cant also get in the Guard or Reserves? Ill admit that there are some benefits to Active Duty military service. It also left plenty of time to have a normal life and spend time with one's family. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the, Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. These figures do not include initial trainingthey solely account for the time and cost associated with the platform-specific training. Soldiers pilot a CH-47 Chinook helicopter during a training flight over the city of Erbil in the Kurdistan Region of Iraq, May 23, 2020. ADDED QUESTION: What, in your opinion, is the average view of Army Aviation within the perspectives of your peers? Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? Army Aviation Leaders should. Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) . Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. People are tired. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. Im not young, but Ive aged well and am not ready to resign myself to a desk. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. Our nation needs brave men and women willing to use Air Power to murder our enemies and break their shit. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the USAF Academy as we were forced to sign a paper accepting a similar ADSC increase in case of getting an Air Force pilot slot. The UH-72 costs twice as much to operate as a TH-67. Initial assignments should be in table of organiza-tion and equipment (TOE) rather than table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Across the force, warrant officer recruiters are actively on the lookout to fill their ranks. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? Due to the flight school ADSO and timeline, you will be on active duty for about 7 years in order to fulfill the obligations incurred through flight training. More than likely, the aviations slots will be filled by personnel lower on the OML. Hah oh good catch. The Army is the only service which allow non college graduates in being Officers and pilots as we know. Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. There are also discussions within the Army aviation community of additional changes that would make becoming a warrant officer even less appealing. They require more time for people to gain experience. It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school inFY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a sudden.BAM! Ive also called this the, Stans idea (Do 5 years as an engineer, then fly for the Guard or Reserve), Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. I think it would be a great idea to leverage senior NCOs to enter pilot training with a waiver. self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) 10 years after flight school graduation. The increased ADSO only harms this effort further. I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. You are likely going to be on Active Duty Status for about 7 years once you finish command as most officers command a company around their 6th year of service. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. Can you hear the roar of approval erupting from Army doctors across the globe serving out their decade plus commitments? The answer is clear. I believe you must pass SERE and another leadership course before phase 1 flight. The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality. They think this is going to solve the shortage. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. . Your link has been automatically embedded. This used to be unheard of. Whatever path you end up taking, please consider taking a UPT slot when offered. Traditionally, the Army has not struggled to recruit pilots. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. Display as a link instead, By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. This is the second part of a series about choosing between military and civilian career options. Fly them that way through the instrument phase, and then conduct a rotary wing transition. If I am branched Aviation, this ADSO will begin upon completion of my flight school ADSO. army aviation 10 year adso. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. I remember when they tried to get aviators out of the "sack" flight suit and into Nomex BDUs to make them more soldierly. The U-2 and B-2 are both single-location aircraft, and they go through so much trouble getting their pilots that youd have to try to leave. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Your previous content has been restored. But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. I honestly don't believe that the way out of this is getting more people to fly that have less time available left in their military careers. positivism constructivism or interpretivism and pragmatism army aviation 10 year adso. (Well assume a move to the Guard or Reserve after completing your initial 10-year UPT ADSC. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. Can't be branched aviation. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty UPT slot in hopes of possibly getting a Guard or Reserve slot 5 years from now. That's the Army's ace in the hole. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. Active component warrant officer strength, as of October 1, 2018 (Source: Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls), Two main variables affect pilot strength in the military: production and retention. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. If the Army rescinds this ADSO and reverts to the original six-year obligation, it will have six years to develop solutions to increase retention. So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? If you want to. Posted on . Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. Would they do it with a 12-year commitment? That being said, they let you fly as your primary duty and fly cooler airframes. ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. If you want to fly the U-2, you must start on Active Duty. That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. I bet less than 300 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. Not sure. You make an excellent point..I'm a twice retired CW4 (did a voluntary retiree recall three years after my first twenty). Stan is likely to do plenty of TDYs as an engineer and isnt impervious to the threat of deployment. What a joke. Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! If you want military aviation to be a part of your life for more than 10 years, possibly even 20+ years, you should pursue any path that will get you there!